a new genesis

[lawrencemullen]

title: a new genesis

in the beginning
it never mattered what was there
it never mattered that maybe
kronos and choas
had their fight for who deserved what
but they both lost
neither were entitled to shit
and their children inherited
high definition tvs
obsolete septa tokens
backlit keyboards

in the beginning
they forgot to sign up for triple play
so they took from the clay-designed
fire-made men below
forcing prometheus to steal back
verizon fios cables
why would zeus care about him
tethering him to a rock
perpetually waiting
for comcast customer service
a reliable connection is where it’s at

in the beginning
hermaphroditus was himself
raised by aphrodite and hermes
circumnavigating a forest of
women-like salmacis
who coincidently
was also herself
in the beginning.

[whoismisterjim]

What do we think of the final stanza here? How does the diction and tone in this final stanza compare to the rest of the poem?

[Brielle Kroner]

Jan 22, 2018 15:23:20 GMT whoismisterjim said:

What do we think of the final stanza here? How does the diction and tone in this final stanza compare to the rest of the poem?

I think that the last stanza feels a little less matter-of-fact than the rest of the poem. The poem builds to this final stanza with the repetition of "in the beginning," but the build continues through to the end without a resolution. The "was himself" and "was herself" are throwing me off a bit. I'm not sure if I know these Greek characters well enough to know what it means for them to be themselves and then perhaps lose themselves over time like the poem implies.

[maranda]

The major thing for me with this poem as well as the other poem this week is accessibility. For people who aren't familiar with Greek Characters or myths, this is a lot of googling to get this poem. Just because I am familiar doesn't mean I can ignore the fact that my hand has been slapped for having too many references you have to look up lol and for a lot less than this. Comments like "it takes me out of the poem" "I have to read a whole other story to get this one" "Who are these Characters, should I know them" are sure to follow. What I did like about the piece is the unique take on the things that are inherited, they are very specific and entertaining:

high definition tvs
obsolete septa tokens
backlit keyboards

A line like this should be funny but access is closed

they forgot to sign up for triple play<<Who is they if it's the gods or their children be specific, also I'm not sure everybody will know what triple play is which causes the reader to lose the rest of the stanza. I am not against looking things up but there a limit, and this poem passes it.

[chello]

in answer to Prof. Warner's question, the last stanza feels like a separate poem. it changes subject abruptly and the only connection is "in the beginning". i agree with both Brielle and Maranda, there are too many references going in different directions. that maybe why it feels like a build up with no resolution. like the other poem there are some lovely moments like the one Maranda mentions,
"and their children inherited
high definition tvs
obsolete septa tokens
backlit keyboards" i really love this moment, as well
"as perpetually waiting
for comcast customer service
a reliable connection..,".
that's really intriguing bringing the god's forward into current times, with current time issues.
"

[whoismisterjim]

It seems like the literary allusions may be keeping us out of the poem. What suggestions would you offer to either contextualize or revise these aspects?

[Brielle Kroner]

Jan 22, 2018 22:47:24 GMT maranda said:

The major thing for me with this poem as well as the other poem this week is accessibility. For people who aren't familiar with Greek Characters or myths, this is a lot of googling to get this poem. Just because I am familiar doesn't mean I can ignore the fact that my hand has been slapped for having too many references you have to look up lol and for a lot less than this. Comments like "it takes me out of the poem" "I have to read a whole other story to get this one" "Who are these Characters, should I know them" are sure to follow. What I did like about the piece is the unique take on the things that are inherited, they are very specific and entertaining:

high definition tvs
obsolete septa tokens
backlit keyboards

A line like this should be funny but access is closed

they forgot to sign up for triple play<<Who is they if it's the gods or their children be specific, also I'm not sure everybody will know what triple play is which causes the reader to lose the rest of the stanza. I am not against looking things up but there a limit, and this poem passes it.

I agree to an extent, because I do want to know who "they" is, but I think that triple play should be a pretty safe reference. Lots of people know what it is. I didn't, but it's not hard to google, and with something so common, I feel like it's my fault that I didn't know what it was. I don't think that the poet should be too concerned about it not being understood.

The mythological references are a bit different, since I wouldn't assume that enough people know too many details about mythology, but it's a judgement call. Most people know Zeus's story for example, so that's probably fine. Lawrence has told us that Hermaphroditus was raised by Hermes and Aphrodite, so that's fine. I had to look up Salmacis, which is probably a more obscure character, but once I did, it was pretty clear why Hermaphroditus would steer clear of her. I think, if anything, Salmacis could be introduced somehow in the poem to avoid that google search.

[whoismisterjim]

Jan 23, 2018 14:49:39 GMT Brielle Kroner said:

Jan 22, 2018 22:47:24 GMT maranda said:

The major thing for me with this poem as well as the other poem this week is accessibility. For people who aren't familiar with Greek Characters or myths, this is a lot of googling to get this poem. Just because I am familiar doesn't mean I can ignore the fact that my hand has been slapped for having too many references you have to look up lol and for a lot less than this. Comments like "it takes me out of the poem" "I have to read a whole other story to get this one" "Who are these Characters, should I know them" are sure to follow. What I did like about the piece is the unique take on the things that are inherited, they are very specific and entertaining:

high definition tvs
obsolete septa tokens
backlit keyboards

A line like this should be funny but access is closed

they forgot to sign up for triple play<<Who is they if it's the gods or their children be specific, also I'm not sure everybody will know what triple play is which causes the reader to lose the rest of the stanza. I am not against looking things up but there a limit, and this poem passes it.

The mythological references are a bit different, since I wouldn't assume that enough people know too many details about mythology, but it's a judgement call. Most people know Zeus's story for example, so that's probably fine. Lawrence has told us that Hermaphroditus was raised by Hermes and Aphrodite, so that's fine. I had to look up Salmacis, which is probably a more obscure character, but once I did, it was pretty clear why Hermaphroditus would steer clear of her. I think, if anything, Salmacis could be introduced somehow in the poem to avoid that google search.

Good point, Brielle. Lawrence does give us context for Hermaphroditus. As far as Googling allusions, what does everyone else think? Do you want your readers to Google your references? 

[maranda]

If I have an important reference vital to moving the poem yes I want the reader not to be lazy and look it up. When you have poems that depend on the reader knowing the referenced work to even gain access to a poem then this reference needs to be easy to access. Here in this poem we have

kronos and choas
triple play
prometheus and zeus
hermaphroditus was himself
raised by aphrodite and hermes
salmacis

you must understand who all of these characters are and their relationships with each other in order to continue.
Brielle had to look up triple play and so did I. These characters are symbols/shortcuts for stories and if you don't know them this poem has three stanzas worth of googling. Having just sat on a mock panel of readers with forty poems to got through in under an hour I wouldn't have had the time to look all of this up and this poem would have been an instant no just for that reason alone. Until I fully comprehend the text I can't even begin to offer a real critique or have an opinion about it. We don't have to dumb it down for the readers but asking them to leave the poem every stanza to look something up isn't great either. The remedy, considering the reader and what they might know and what they might not, if you want to use references like this then finding ways in the poem to touch on who or what a character is about without sending the reader out of the poem searching.

[chello]

i had to chew on this for a bit, i don't mind googling things in fact sometimes it is fun to go on a treasure hunt for new information. but there has to be something super complying to make me want to take the time to do that. i tried to take the poem and read as if we were not working-shopping and it is very interesting but i don't know that outside of workshop, if the poems pushes me to google things?
also for myself as a writer i don't want my readers to have to go in search of something. i hope to give them enough information that they can understand or get something from the poem, if i've given them something that they desire to go on a quest cool but i don't want them to have to look up things. i hope that makes sense.

[whoismisterjim]

So it seems that we all agree context is the key here for a reader's experience with the poem. How and where would you suggest creating more context? What would that look like for you?

[lawrencemullen]

Hello all!

So I wanted to address accessibility. I definitely agree that I need to put more about Salmacis in this so you can understand who she is. My aim was to generally give you enough information about these mythological characters that you don't need to look them up, especially the titans, Aphrodite, Hermes, Zeus, and Prometheus. They are in the piece to set up a history or creation story, because this type of poem I see being the beginning/first poem of an overall collection that revolves around Hermaphroditus and Salmacis, and I just wanted to give greater-world context. If you had to look people up, then I think I need to do more in this poem to make the characters grounded in my piece alone, so you don't have to look them up.

Thanks for all the wonderful comments this week!!

[whoismisterjim]

Jan 26, 2018 14:13:25 GMT lawrencemullen said:

Hello all!

So I wanted to address accessibility. I definitely agree that I need to put more about Salmacis in this so you can understand who she is. My aim was to generally give you enough information about these mythological characters that you don't need to look them up, especially the titans, Aphrodite, Hermes, Zeus, and Prometheus. They are in the piece to set up a history or creation story, because this type of poem I see being the beginning/first poem of an overall collection that revolves around Hermaphroditus and Salmacis, and I just wanted to give greater-world context. If you had to look people up, then I think I need to do more in this poem to make the characters grounded in my piece alone, so you don't have to look them up.

Thanks for all the wonderful comments this week!!

Lawrence,

Are there any additional questions you may have about the poem that your workshoppers did not address: line breaks, title, etc? 

[lawrencemullen]

Jan 26, 2018 16:03:22 GMT whoismisterjim said:

Jan 26, 2018 14:13:25 GMT lawrencemullen said:

Hello all!

So I wanted to address accessibility. I definitely agree that I need to put more about Salmacis in this so you can understand who she is. My aim was to generally give you enough information about these mythological characters that you don't need to look them up, especially the titans, Aphrodite, Hermes, Zeus, and Prometheus. They are in the piece to set up a history or creation story, because this type of poem I see being the beginning/first poem of an overall collection that revolves around Hermaphroditus and Salmacis, and I just wanted to give greater-world context. If you had to look people up, then I think I need to do more in this poem to make the characters grounded in my piece alone, so you don't have to look them up.

Thanks for all the wonderful comments this week!!

Lawrence,

Are there any additional questions you may have about the poem that your workshoppers did not address: line breaks, title, etc? 

Mmmm maybe the title? I'm not sure what to title the piece mostly because I want it to act as a stage setting sort of thing, which is making it difficult for me to find a title that encapsulates that.