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Post by whoismisterjim on Jan 26, 2018 14:57:36 GMT
In terms of context, I wasn't really sure about how much to provide or to not to. The poem is about something that doesn't actually occur in the text itself, so I wasn't sure. I'm still sort of unsure about how to incorporate more of the text. Any suggestions on incorporating more of the text for Lawrence?
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Post by Brielle Kroner on Jan 26, 2018 17:14:07 GMT
In terms of context, I wasn't really sure about how much to provide or to not to. The poem is about something that doesn't actually occur in the text itself, so I wasn't sure. I'm still sort of unsure about how to incorporate more of the text. Any suggestions on incorporating more of the text for Lawrence? That's trickier if the poem is fictionalizing the fiction so to speak. I think it's more important in that case to make clear what is actually happening in the poem. Less important then to understand Ligeia. I think Poe's story then becomes additional reading, rather than necessary to understand the poem. Maybe think of your poem as a story itself that stands alone. We need to be introduced to your characters within the poem and understand their actions as if there is no story that you're going off of. Does that make sense? I think if you're inventing beyond what happens in the story, reading the story won't necessarily help us, only in-poem context will.
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Post by maranda on Jan 26, 2018 17:52:53 GMT
That's trickier if the poem is fictionalizing the fiction so to speak. I think it's more important in that case to make clear what is actually happening in the poem. Less important then to understand Ligeia. I think Poe's story then becomes additional reading, rather than necessary to understand the poem. Maybe think of your poem as a story itself that stands alone. We need to be introduced to your characters within the poem and understand their actions as if there is no story that you're going off of. Does that make sense? I think if you're inventing beyond what happens in the story, reading the story won't necessarily help us, only in-poem context will. This is good advice Brielle. I will make this recommendation here for this poem as well as Lawrence's other poem. Especially their other poem which they have mentioned is a possible beginning for a collection which will be character driven. If Lawrence isn't going to do just a basic retelling with extended poetic language and the characters might be doing new or different things, then we need introduction to who these people are what they're about for any type of access into the poems or ability to follow what the turn is and why it's important. Character sketches are a great way to figure out how to present information. Here's an example: At the beginning of my manuscript I have a poem about my grandfather and the handful of memories I have of him and what he was about, which serves as the shortcut later in the script for readers to recall those details and personality when he appears again. Then his name being mentioned later becomes a reference, a symbol, for a lesson, an achievement, a feeling etc. No character in-depth character intro, no reader investment. As far as what to bring in from the actual text, things that move you.
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Post by chello on Jan 26, 2018 18:12:42 GMT
i agree with both Brielle and Maranda, more important the knowing the story referenced is giving us a picture in our minds about the situation. i just got Betts' book and one of the poems referenced things i did not know but her description was such that i did not need to know it, it was so beautifully described i got it! so that's what i would tell Lawrence let us see what you see happening.
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Post by whoismisterjim on Jan 27, 2018 14:24:40 GMT
Any suggestions on incorporating more of the text for Lawrence? I think if you're inventing beyond what happens in the story, reading the story won't necessarily help us, only in-poem context will. This is an excellent point Brielle, and one that serves each of us beyond just this poem. Context dictates immediate direction for a reader. Regardless of the prior knowledge a reader may have and bring into a poem, it's the writer's responsibility to at least give enough footing for the reader to move through the poem.
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Post by lawrencemullen on Jan 27, 2018 18:38:25 GMT
That's trickier if the poem is fictionalizing the fiction so to speak. I think it's more important in that case to make clear what is actually happening in the poem. Less important then to understand Ligeia. I think Poe's story then becomes additional reading, rather than necessary to understand the poem. Maybe think of your poem as a story itself that stands alone. We need to be introduced to your characters within the poem and understand their actions as if there is no story that you're going off of. Does that make sense? I think if you're inventing beyond what happens in the story, reading the story won't necessarily help us, only in-poem context will. This is good advice Brielle. I will make this recommendation here for this poem as well as Lawrence's other poem. Especially their other poem which they have mentioned is a possible beginning for a collection which will be character driven. If Lawrence isn't going to do just a basic retelling with extended poetic language and the characters might be doing new or different things, then we need introduction to who these people are what they're about for any type of access into the poems or ability to follow what the turn is and why it's important. Character sketches are a great way to figure out how to present information. Here's an example: At the beginning of my manuscript I have a poem about my grandfather and the handful of memories I have of him and what he was about, which serves as the shortcut later in the script for readers to recall those details and personality when he appears again. Then his name being mentioned later becomes a reference, a symbol, for a lesson, an achievement, a feeling etc. No character in-depth character intro, no reader investment. As far as what to bring in from the actual text, things that move you. This is all super helpful, thank you!! I've done character sketches before, so I'll give that a try again because I really do want these characters to hold their own.
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Post by whoismisterjim on Jan 29, 2018 14:35:59 GMT
One last aspect to consider here is that I would suggest is the actual look of your opening stanza:
the lady ligeia apparition the statue the demeanor of the figure of unutterable fancies for a crowd
Beyond the suggestion of cutting/replacing "the" some punctuation here would help with providing more access to the poem in relation to pacing and tone. We know there's an elevation in diction at play from the literary reference, but another aspect which may be lending to the sense of the impenetrable could be alleviated with an addition of comas. If we are writing a piece which may already be asking our readers to draw on literary allusions or be outside the poem than they may/may not be comfortable doing, then we need to give them another way into the poem.
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